Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 01:06:17 -0500 From: Derek Glidden To: j2se-linux-comments@sun.com, letters@lwn.net Subject: Sun, Java and Linux Today on the Java-linux mailing list there started a flame-fest because today Sun announced that they, jointly with Inprise (nee Borland), have released the Java2 JDK v1.2.2 Release Candidate 1 for Linux, coincedentally on the same day the Blackdown team announced their Java2 JDK v1.2.2rc3. The flame-fest comes from the fact that Sun's press release conveniently doesn't mention the Blackdown group who have been hacking away at the Java2 source code since pre-release versions to get it running successfully on Linux. I follow java-linux development more than I follow linux-kernel development, but from the way I understand things, a good deal of native/kernel thread development and stability on Linux is due to the Blackdown team working with the kernel and glibc teams to find and track down threading bugs in the kernel and glibc. Without the work Blackdown has done, a full Java2 JDK on Linux that could take advantage of native kernel threads just might not have been possible at all. Without Blackdown pushing, it's also possible that Linux kernel hackers might not have had impetus to implement native kernel threads at all by now. Linux has more to thank the Blackdown team for than just the JDK port. Adding insult to injury, when you download the "Sun/Inprise" JDK from Sun, you find READMEs and CVS messages left in several of the files left over from the Blackdown port. In other words, Sun took the work the Blackdown team has been doing on Java2 for *at least* the past year, handed it to Inprise, said "Here, get this running" and turned around and claimed it as their own. In their defense, Inprise says they've done a lot of independent work on the JDK to get it to "release quality" but it's still founded on man-years of work done by Blackdown. (And the Inprise port doesn't support native threads and actively discourages running it on SMP boxen, while the Blackdown port does both just fine, so...) Unfortunately, Sun's "Community Source License" gives them every right to do exactly that and screw Blackdown and screw their porting efforts in the process. The Blackdown team has been working on the JDK in good faith, and against nearly overwhelming apathy from Sun, knowing full and well that Sun's source license gives Sun the exclusive right to any and all patches to the JDK source that Blackdown might generate, under the assumption that the Blackdown port would be Sun's "semi-official Linux JDK" port. For their effort, Sun turned around and said, "Screw good faith and screw you too, we're gonna get some good press out of this and pretend again like we're an 'Open Source' company and 'Pro-Linux' just like when we bought StarOffice. We're Sun, you're a bunch of nameless, faceless programmers. Who's spin do you think the public will believe?" Not only that, but the press release goes so far as to say (paraphrased) "Java and Linux fans have asked for Sun to support Java on Linux and we listened". This after SEVERAL YEARS (ever since JDK 1.0) of "native Linux support from Sun" being the most demanded feature on Sun's "JDK wishlist" by SEVERAL ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE over ALL OTHER DEVELOPER REQUESTS COMBINED and Linux users getting nothing but the finger from Sun. Sun - Your license stinks. Your concept of "community" stinks. The way you treat (use) developers trying to support your products stinks. Forget your mouth, this time you've stuck your foot all the way up your a** after having shot it nearly clean off and there's no one to blame but yourselves. Hopefully the tone of this letter will give you some understanding of the bad feelings ("bad feelings" isn't strong enough, but I'm trying to remain more or less polite) you've generated in the Java-Linux community. Good luck trying to regain our trust. On the very dim bright side, a member of the Java development team from Inprise is also (unofficially) frequenting the java-linux list and is (again, unofficially) trying to let the world (or at least the java-linux world) know that, at the very least, Inprise developers know full and well the effort Blackdown has already put into the work and that Blackdown has Inprise's full and complete respect for it. That and a buck and a half will get the Blackdown team a cup of java down at Starbucks and big fat moon from Sun. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- With Microsoft products, failure is not Derek Glidden an option - it's a standard component. http://3dlinux.org/ Choose your life. Choose your http://www.tbcpc.org/ future. Choose Linux. http://www.illusionary.com/